Absolutely on-target. Can't add a word to this one. Beautiful!

Oh, if this were only "a worthless piece of legislation" -- and, for the record, I agree with you that it is beneath contempt!! -- the harm that it will cause for the education of children all over the state of Georgia cannot be overstated. Shame on you, Mr. Rogers, for putting the profit margin of your friends and campaign contributors ahead of our children!!

We all have a perspective on this. Yours is not more valid than the other side. Parents and students do not have public choices today and customer service in some schools is nil. How about the innocence stolen from my child and other children? How about the school receptionist who yelled at my child for printing his check-in slip (standard protocol) before eight o'clock in the morning? It goes on and on and on and on Ms. Hooper. How about the teachers who are making use of the federal and state tax dollars - making excuses for cursing at children? I've had enough excuses and dribble drabble about "we're doing this, we're doing that." Let's all just tell the truth here and admit that there's not going to be any change for people who abuse their posts as long as there is tenure, teacher unions, and high stakes testing. Your machine is sick, and I've had enough of all of you whose children haven't suffered the "guvment worker" mentality of some of these people. "Take a number and sit down. We'll get to you if and when we feel like it." You will do anything to protect a broken machine.

Where's the accountability for the behavior that goes on? WHERE IS IT? TELL ME! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/30/psychological-abuse_n_1707140.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

If it were 15 years ago in my life, I would have gone public. PR, PR, PR - all anybody cares about. Where are the intellectuals who care about CHILDREN and CHILD DEVELOPMENT? You're telling one side of the story as if there aren't good reasons why a state agency has to be created in order to give Georgia parents more choices in education. I've dealt with it before - this "protect and defend" them at all costs. Your machine is throwing away a 1/3 of the children that enter into in some counties. And yet you cling to it as if reform is so simply at our fingertips. All we have to do is work with our local School Boards, right? They'll just be perfectly willing to give away their precious money - the precious money they keep spending on technology when first graders don't have parapros anymore and some kids with Special Needs are still undiagnosed and unserved. "Just keep feeding the machine....and everything will be ok.....support the public schools......" Well, Ms. Hooper, you must be in an area where you are LUCKY enough to trust every person the school district designates to care for your child if you have to work. I wouldn't have let my child stay alone for an hour with the teacher they wanted to assign us for an elementary grade.

Athens Mama...If the school receptionist is rude to you or your child, get with the Principal! If you or your child is treat unfairly, it is YOUR JOB to stand up. Whether we're talking traditional public schools or charter schools, you will encounter some people who are unknowingly brash or simply having a bad day...It isn't just a public school problem.

As to schools not being able to keep parapros in the rooms or adequately helping SPED children...the schools are doing the best they can with the money they're provided. Keep in mind that Chip Rogers and friends have been cutting school funding! Even now, while they're underfunding public schools, they are overfunding charter schools. Show them your anger and demand public schools be fully funded.

Lastly, comparing public schools to Country Walk daycare the sex abuse hysteria of the 80s and early 90s is hillarious. Most/many of the convictions were overturned as the children were coached and coersed to provide false testimony.

Sweetheart, nothing ever gets done in some schools. Some SPED kids are not diagnosed early, and so they remain in classrooms where their needs are not served, and the teacher can't teach with the distractions created. As far as showing my anger - I show my vote! I vote Democrat, unlike most of the rest of the state who keep putting conservative who vote "No" on Education over and over. Paul Broun, Saxby Chambliss, etc. etc. etc. Great job electing effective leaders Georgia.

@Athens Mama...Sweetheart, keep throwing your vote away by voting for the Dems...what has that done to change education (or anything else) in GA? Personally, I vote for whomever I feel will do the best job, not because they have an R or a D by their name. If your local school isn't working for you what are you doing to fix it??? complaining about it here isn't enough!

From what empowerED Georgia folks tell me, these schools approved by the privately run Charter School Commission won't have any room for Special Education students. Those children will remain in the public school system. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but these are for-profit "public" schools that won't serve the "public" because they won't provide many of the services that public schools do now. Athens Mama: sorry your experience with special education in Clarke County has been poor. Ours has been great. The school and the school district and the teachers have all had the goal of helping my child succeed. And guess what? She is!

Athens Mama...Glad to hear you are a fellow Democrat. We need a few more as the Republicans are a fiasco in this state and elsewhere in the south. I'm hopeful that sooner, rather than later, moderate Republicans will see Deal, Rogers, Chambliss and the others as incompetent, zealots and vote them out.

Elizabeth,
One of the most compelling elements of the school choice debate is the amazing way the pro-charter effort in Georgia cuts powerfully across every demographic. I witnessed Democrats and Republicans, conservative and liberal, rich and poor, urban and rural, teacher, parent, and student, and every race the melting pot touches, come together at the Charter School rally at the capitol. It was striking. They were calm, focused, and determined to make a difference in the future of their children, and they will. I was hoping that the debate would be more about substance than personal attack. Both sides have good points to make that would enrich the discussion and enable solutions. Your letter to Senator Rogers diminishes the debate by resorting to a personal, snarky, attack. You are setting a tone. I hope your future blog posts are more about your positions than personal attacks.

Elizabeth, I am sorry that the only experience you have had is that of the public schools in Georgia. My daughter attends the public Cherokee Charter School. She is thriving in the Cambridge Academy within the school. They are currently working a grade level above in the core subjects. I am hoping she can also attend a top college as my oldest son just did. This school is meeting all of our expectations and Chip is winning this battle. Your posts seem more rooted in anger and emotion than facts,

When I read stories like this, I realize that the whole debate is tainted with everything BUT what is good for children. http://www.peachpundit.com/2012/08/23/governor-deal-vs-the-gwinnett-chamber-of-commerce/

Parents should be pulling their children out of the system be it public or charter. It is all politicized.

sounds like an emotional answer Beth. You did not answer my question but this is not a test after all. This a legal debate. "The State" wants more power. Is it wise to give it to them or not? In my experience "the state" is not better equiped to make decisions for me than my local school board. In addition, my three children have done well in our public schools. Since we're bragging about children - my eldest graduated number 5 from Northview HS - no easy feat. She then went to GaTech and majored in architecture. She graduated number 1 in her architecture class and has a great job in her field - also no easy feat. My second graduated from UGA in 3.5 years and has an excellent job in Boston - all her doing. My son is at Alpharetta HS and works his tail off as do all of his friends. Your generalizations about "all public schools in Georgia are failing" are rude and disrespectful in my opinion. Do I dectect a "southerners are all stupid red necks" bias? I certainly hope not!

@Elizabeth - the state wants the power to supercede the short sightedness of some of the local BOEs and give some of the kids a fighting chance. In my district, a third will not graduate. One of my children is a super social child with a below average level of academic engagement in the school we were zoned for versus an above average level of academic engagement in the school I paid to move us into. I think each of our perspectives is very affected by the way our own districts serve our families.
@Rebecca- the discussion of Special Education is a sensitive subject and a multi-layered one. Given your position and communication skills, I would bet that your child's learning issues are not related to environment. However, some are, especially in some districts. You would have to observe to believe what the Special Ed services your child would receive in some schools. How about if your child just had specific issues with numbers or letters? Maybe your child has sensory issues and needs less noise or specific instruction in areas like writing. This is not the same as the child who moves about the classroom throwing desks, hitting across the face, or punching. Yet, in some situations, these children are grouped together, simply because they all fall under "Special Ed." So, an uninformed parent might accept the services being rendered as acceptable, not knowing that this might not reflect the realities that exist elsewhere.

When I'm referring to kids with Special Needs being underserved, I'm talking about the instances where they don't have IEPs yet. Either the system hasn't moved them through the tunnel of paperwork yet or the team is waiting. If you have ever seen a GA PreK room with one child running through the circle, hitting, screaming, and throwing things at the teacher, with no other adult in the room, that is what's going on. Once there is another teacher or para, then there are more resources. In first grade classrooms, they just yanked all the paras, so if there are kids who have moved from out of county and their parents haven't registered them as having IEPs, then they will not get served until the paperwork gets delivered or redone. Time. Time passes. Time. Time passes some more. All that time, kids who have a variety of educational needs remain in the chaos. Some, like one of my children, do very well. By fifth grade, that child can do all of his/her work, help redirect kids with behavior issues, and help those who are still struggling to read. Others, like another of my children, don't do so well at all. They start off with "P"s. None of the teachers tell you that "P"s mean "F"s. They sugarcoat things - they're progressing, still mastering, etc. Until third or fourth grade and you realize that your child can't add. Your child, the one to whom you read, reared with guidance and love, spent time illuminating. And you are nothing but STUCK if you own property.

If you believe state charters will meet the needs of any special ed child long-term, you need to do some serious, in-depth research. As Rebecca, Paula, et.al. note, these charters will either not accept those childen OR will serve them so poorly that the parents will opt to return them to their local public school.

Need evidence? According to the GaDOE report card (data reported by school), for 2010-11, over 6 percent of Fulton Science Academy's students were categorized as Special Ed. http://archives.gadoe.org/ReportingFW.aspx?PageReq=102&SchoolId=36574&T=1&FY=2011

Careful review of the audit of FSA's expenses (again data from FSA records, supervised by FSA accountant),shows, however, suggests a MAJOR disconnect. Pages 31 and 32 reflect that FSA paid $1540 per month in Special Ed salaries of a total salary encumbrance of $195,655. For comparison, other monthly expenses were salaries for a principal $7500, two assistant principals $11,000, and security resource officer $2420 (contracted), as well as weekday overtime of $4508 and $7538 in legal service fees.

What level of special ed services do you think was rendered for a salary of $18K? (That is half a base teacher salary.) Paying 3 administrators $222K (plus benefits) gives you some idea of how charters can "focus their resources."

A copy of the audit may be accessed on a previous Patch article http://alpharetta.patch.com/articles/fulton-science-academy-ms-audit-reveals-many-problems#pdf-10316715

Thank you for calling out those who choose to deal in misinformation, Elizabeth. I took MARTA downtown yesterday and spent the entire trip discussing education with a fellow rider from East Cobb (with adult children), including the fallacies of the need to replicate services with a second state charter option. He seemed interested, so hopefully will continue to pass along the facts, not fallacies.

@Me: You're right. Kids with Special Needs will have a chance to apply for admission to charter schools - but IEPS will be optional. The likelihood of many students with Special Ed needs being admitted to charters is small - but maybe not nil. For instance, I know a child gifted in 2 subjects but with a learning disability in another. If the child was gifted in Science and it was a Science focused charter - that might not disqualify that child. However UNLIMITED FEDERAL FUNDS guarantee that students with Special Ed needs get services in regular public schools. Lower performing gen ed students - some even low performing AS A DIRECT RESULT OF THEIR SCHOOL ENVIRONMENTS - don't get anything extra and are lucky to even get direct feedback on their schoolwork. Any research available that investigates Special Education needs that COULD BE CAUSED BY EDUCATION ENVIRONMENTS? No. Kid is developmentally delayed - happens to lots of kids, particularly boys. Kid can't count by tens beyond 100. Kid doesn't understand what "counting by 100s" means. Kid moves on without anyone rectifying this - kid has no IEP. Kid makes it to third grade. Class instruction moves at a rapid rate, standards including algebra, geometry, order of operations, and other "higher order thinking" skills required to be taught, even if kids are behind. Kid falls through cracks, never makes it into advanced math. Middle school gen ed math is a cesspool of behavior problems. Kid doesn't graduate.

"Government worker" mentality dictates that a teacher with years of experience behind him/her gets a quality job teaching this third grader. Teacher shows up and teaches what is required every day, talked behind the scenes about the irresponsible families to which his/her students belong, with disdain even for the innocent students. Teacher never makes corrections to students' writing that they go over and process. Teacher never remediates students who are behind. Teacher scoffs at students who are slow or don't do well, even on poorly designed assessments. Students should just "study" harder. Teacher assigns stations for an hour per day, during which time teacher works with small groups. Teacher never checks to ensure that students have absorbed accurate information during this time. Teacher continues to show up year after year, until teacher gets tenure. Then teacher REALLY gets to treat his/her students how teacher feels about them. Teacher may even receive accolades for his/her work during this time, recognized by co-workers - teacher is always nice in front of them. Teacher may even scream in students' faces at the top of his/her lungs, in front of hundreds of people. No one stops him/her.

@Athens Mama Sad to say, someone has horribly misinformed you if you really believe "UNLIMITED FEDERAL FUNDS guarantee that students with Special Ed needs get services in regular public schools." The Feds have seemingly unlimited expectations of what schools will provide for special ed students and their families, but their contributions to meeting those expectations are actually quite limited. This is why charters won't take those students, which would mean that local systems would take a double-hit with the proposed charter amendment funding provisions, One hit would be from having the new state charters pull more than what the system would earn from the K12 budget, and the second would be that of course a higher percentage of students would be special needs.

In this Fulton report from 2010, only 25% of the average expense of $30,323 per special ed student was paid with federal funds; also, only 14% was covered by the state, leaving 61% ($18,624) to be paid with local property taxes.

It is sad that you and your child have had some miserable experiences. I assure you that we had some serious bumps in Fulton County as well. HOWEVER, each time I fought a battle, children who followed my child also benefited. That can help in the long term, I promise.

http://portal.fultonschools.org/departments/Financial_Services/Budget_Services/Documents/FY%202011%20Budget/Board%20Retreat%2002-26-10-FCSSSpecialEdCostperFTE-InitialFY10.pdf

....or maybe it's that public school districts receive those funds on a "per head" basis, but they aren't exactly spent that way?
I complained by mouth and in person, battled and lost, then moved and won.

@FrankJones Last year this time, we were hearing how wonderful Fulton Science was as well - to the point of allegations that our TPSs in North Fulton were embarrassed by FSA's successes. My, how things have changed... and the stories of dissatisfaction with FSA begin to pile up.

Of course the state didn't renew their charter either...does it look like for good cause now? A new charter commission to rubber stamp each and every charter appllcation would be better how?

All the time people battling "for their children" in the public schools, time lost, lost, lost, lost, lost....

@Frank - you are completely right - IN SOME SCHOOLS. Your rights are pretty minimal if your child's abilities fall within the mainstream. Some schools and teachers work hard at customer service. Some schools and teachers bend over backwards to serve parents and students. Some treat you like garbage. I've experienced both. I post relentlessly on this topic because my kids are all packaged up and ready to go, but I cannot ever forget those who are left behind. I particularly bleed for those who do not know anything different because they have never experienced another place or another way.

Let's just focus on the wish to Mr. Rogers for the weekend. How crude is that? Chip is paying for his kids to go to school but pays again for a private school and that's bad? I know people who send their kids to private school for religious reasons, for learning difficulties and more. Most really sacrifice. They aren't living the posh Alpharetta life, sending their kids to the really great public schools while arguing that other shouldn't have what they have. It seems that Ms. Hooper thinks it's great that during the 2 years of the commission, the districts saw 60 schools, approved 4. The 56 went to the commission where 16 were approved and 14 opened. Doesn't seem to be a huge bureaucracy out of control. Seem a small group provided an appeals process just in case the fat cat superintendents didn't reject a school just to ensure their power base (students, which equal MONEY). They don't like competition. The year before the commission, they approved ZERO schools.

Is Ms. Hooper worried better schools in Atlanta may make it more desirable and thus competitive with North Fulton?

It's about kids NOW. Not ten years from now. NOW. We don't need this liberal mindset anymore keeping our dropout rate at 30%.

I find it amazing the anti-choice crowd crows about local control and how the state is over stepping the "local school board". Well as a parent of two kids in Cherokee County who has decided to take advantage of the charter school if that is not local control what is? Janet Reed and Dr. P do not know what is best for my kids yet they want to dictate where my kids attend school. The only argument the anti-charter people make is about money. The argument the people who support the charter option make is about what is best for the kids. On election day we will see how it plays out, will the GA schools that have finished somewhere between 45th and 50th for as long as I can remember stay the same, or will we trust that competition will make things better.

Last note, if the anti-choice crowd wins and my kids are FORCED to go back to a govt. school they will survive as I am lucky enough to live in the Johnston district and it is not a bad school, but I am passionate about this fight because what about the kids that will be FORCED into a school that is unsatisfactory to the parents. Where is the local control in that option?

Mike...Its not all about the money! Money is just one of many arguments against for-profit charter schools. Other arguments include...charters typically have same or WORSE academic outcomes, charters don't accept ALL students, charters operate in secrecy (no open bidding, no public review), and the charter commission isn't accountable to the public.

If the charter amendment doesn't pass and if CCA were to close, no one is going to force you to send your children to CCSD schools. You have many other choices...as you've always had choices.

The pro-choice people need to take a step back and realize that we're all in this together. It's not just about my child or your child. It's about making the school system better for ALL CHILDREN and the best way to accomplish that is to work within the system and hold the CCSD board and administrators accountable.

Our schools are good and its been reported that our district had the highest average SAT scores in the state. Now I don't want to hear your argument that GA is 48th in the nation because you know that is a flawed argument since the state rankings are dependent and skewed based upon the percentage of students taking the SAT.

Frank I bet my life you have never been to the Charter school in Cherokee County. I have my two kids attend there and I can tell you there is more diversity at the CCA then there was at his public school (especially on the staff). Your statement that CCA does not except all students, are you saying they discriminate? You have made dozens of posts on this subject and several times you have made implications that the CCA crowd is picking and choosing their students, what part of a lottery confuses you? You and the other professional posters on this site say the SAT scores are not a good measuring stick, how about graduation rates? Georgia was one of five states with the worst graduation rates. The others are Florida, Nevada, New Mexico and South Carolina. We are not all in this together as you would like to think, we have tried your way and you and your ilk have failed the children in GA. It is all about the money for you, your posting history is there for all to see and in 90% money is your main concern when you are not insinuating the people who support CCA are bigots. You also said I have many other choices, well that is nice of you to say. I choose the charter school is that alright or should I come out of pocket and go private school? Luckily I can afford to do that but what about people that can’t, what choice’s do they have?

Mike and Steve, would you please define "failing schools" or "schools that suck?" You say that Johnston's not a bad school. You are correct. It's a great school. Could you tell me which schools in CCSD you would classify as "bad" and how you came to that conclusion? On what data are you basing your conclusion that Georgia schools rank between 45th and 50th? Frank already let you know that argument is invalid, and that can be proven.

Typical liberal "define what is "is"". I don't know what CCSD is. i just know the stats for Georgia. My kids went to Alpharetta HIgh. Good school. Not great, but, good. For the average "posh" Alpharettan, living on a lake, that's great. But, what about GEORGIA? For those from "up north". OUR STATE? We are not competitive. Not just with other states. With the world. Korea. Japan, Germany. Jennifer, what other language to do you speak? Any? Do you wish our kids spoke more? Math, want more? Forget the interests you represent. Support the kids in all of Georgia that are Left Behind. We need the inner city kids and the posh suburban kids to have an opportunity to be great, for us and for themselves. For Georgia's future. They need the opportunities NOW. Not potentially in 10 to 20 years.

Frank, as a fellow "Frank", how depressing you are so caught up in what "is" is. The fact that a few charter schools are managed by "for profit" management companies is so "so what". You are trying shake shiny things around to get the attention off what are failed and bloated school systems that support >$400K school superintendents who have failing schools yet reject change.

You seem to only be against changing the "status quo". Maybe you're saying "hey, things aren't great, but, they're not becoming less great". Or, "others suck, but we suck less". Not good enough. Not good enough for Georgia's kids. Inside of your district or out.

Steve...this isn't a liberal/conservative thing as schools should be neutral. I know many Republicans and many Democrats who support traditional schools and are opposed to this charter amendment. Leave that stuff behind.

I find it ironic that you say that your child went to Alpharetta High and that it is a "good school" but "not great". While SAT scores have their failings when used in comparisons to other states, they're more useful within a district and within a state. Alpharetta High School's average SAT score was 1679 and 1660 in 2011 and 2012, respectively and were in the top 10 schools in the state for those years.

One must wonder what score qualifies as great or even very good in your book...2,000? 2,300?

Steve...again you speak of the inner city kids. But the amendment does nothing to ensure that charters move into the inner-city. You and others are using the poor and the black to get charters for your kids.

Really, you have to bring racism into this? Ughhh. My kids are set. I got 'em into college. Don't need charters for me. You mention the great scores at AHS. BAM. Your a Dizzie Lizzie follower. Guess you feel it's all about what happens within the small North Fulton area. NOPE. This is only a small part of Atlanta and an even smaller part of Georgia.

Again, all you focus on is "up here". We live in Georgia. I know, you live in North Fulton, not "Georgia". I live in Georgia.

And had the commission not saved Museum School, there would have been a success that would never have been. Now, they're part of Dekalb. The school and district are happy. .............. Your Welcome.

I'm set. My kids got the best GA could give. Not what I got in Florida. But, good. I want better. I want our kids to go beyond Florida. Beyond Mass. Beyond CA. Beyond Korea!

You guys want to play race games. Damn. Move back up north for that. GA is for all kids, no matter what race. No matter what economic level. Just like a democrat to play race/wealth envy cards.

There you go again Frank CCA "you and others using the poor and the black to get charter for your kids". Proving my point once again. You know so little yet type so much. My daughter has been classified as developmentally delayed yet she was accepted, I could name at least three more kids that I personally know (with issue's) but you bore me. I will finish this tomorrow when I am at work and have spell check available (Clayton County graduate) haha.

Both liberals and conservatives support the charter amendment. I'm a flaming liberal - and I support the charter amendment. There need to be MORE CHOICES NOW. I've heard all the arguments about how we already have access to local BOEs - blah, blah, blah - NO WE DON'T. I've heard about how the evil state commission is going to upsurp all the power from local communities - blah, blah, blah - LOCAL COMMUNITIES SUFFER WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE MORE CHOICES FOR EDUCATION. Now to read that the charter schools are going to steal from the poor and the blacks. That is the most disgustingly ridiculous argument I've ever heard in my life. I won't even respond to the reality of that one, except to say that my family has certainly seen LOW INCOME days and WE SUPPORT CHARTER SCHOOLS and THIS AMENDMENT. Why? Because even though we were poor, we built a strong foundation of intellectual support at home and have enjoyed great academic success, even with few resources with which to work. Certain resources had to be there in order for us to reach success, however - A QUALITY PUBLIC SCHOOL. I recognize this, and support choices so that those who do not have access to QUALITY PUBLIC EDUCATION SERVICES can be given a chance at that access. Those who oppose seem to simply support the status quo, even when it fails. In CCSD, 30% of students don't even get their h.s. diploma. That, my friends, is not good enough.

Frank must be a teacher or he would not be in such a "tizzy". My youngest daughter attends Cherokee Charter Academy and it is working wonderfully for her. I agree that some of the public schools in Georgia are "good", but not great. Why should we be held hostage by our local school board who were elected by teachers? The reason the charter parents drive their kids to school is because the school was not approved by our local board and don't have funds for buses. I have seen teachers posting comments hoping the Charter students fail. Why are people happy with average schools? What is great about an ACT score of 22? Georgia Tech applicants generally need at least a 30 to be considered. The children of the United States (Georgia) are woefully unprepared for life. What is wrong with demanding more? Just asking........

Frank this is amazing you call it “passive discrimination” due to car pool. Wow do you think we like spending 30 to 45 minutes a day in that line with gas sky high? The reason we do not have buses is because funding, so you want to shut us down and not give us school choice, so we sacrifice our time and money and actually take on the responsibility of taking and picking up our kids to and from school. If a parent “does not have time to contribute” as you say they are a perfect candidate for the government schools you so love. Who does not have time for their kids education? If they do not have time then they certainly must have the money and parents who do not want to volunteer have choice’s (I know that is a word you despise) to satisfy the school. Now answer my question that you ignored, what are these choice’s you speak of if the Charter schools close?

Frank, my son attends Georgia Tech. He went to an expensive private school, thus my frustration.

Frank my wife and I both work (both of us have a 45hr work week). I help coach a baseball team that my son is on and he also plays LAX my daughter plays soccer. You could fill a library with what YOU DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THE CHARTER SCHOOL OR THE BRAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BROKEN FREE FROM THE CHAINS OF OUR GOVERNMENT SCHOOL SYSTEM BECAUSE WE WANT BETTER FOR OUR KIDS AND ARE WILLING TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES. Your group depends on the good graces of UNCLE SCAM to do the right thing, how did that work out for the Native Americans? This government you defend is the same one that less than a hundred years ago would not allow women to vote. You speak of diversity and how it is a good thing, what you fail to understand is you think we are diverse because like most democrats you judge us by how we look, we are more alike than diverse because we all willing do what it takes if we think it is better for our kids. Only someone full of hate or totally devoid of common sense would call it “passive discrimination” because we take our kids to school (and that is only because we do not have the funding thanks to your crew yet you blame us for that).

@Smartie,
you have no experience with Special Ed, your comment tells me. Do you know what kinds of students are in this category? children with fine motor delays (like my daughter); children who have speak delays; who have gross motor delays, ie, they can't throw or catch a ball or hop on one leg; children who have trouble controlling their impulses, who say and sometimes do the wrong or inappropriate things (lying on the floor, refusing to cooperate). If you think all special ed students are developmentally delayed or mentally impaired in some fashion, you are wrong. They don't need to be segregated from the general curriculum or from students who don't have these challenges. Because, with early intervention and one-on-one help, they will work out of special ed and will be in the classroom with their peer groups. These kinds of classes are collaborative classes, in which there is a special ed teacher and a lead, classroom teacher. Everyone wins in this arrangement. My other daughter, who isn't a special ed student, is very tolerant of everyone, and doesn't make fun of anyone who's abilities are less than average. A school just for special ed students, unless, perhaps, they are autistic, needing round-the-clock assistance, or have hearing or vision problems, strikes me as an ill-conceived idea.

Rebecca, I agree with most of your comment, but take exception to some of the conditions you listed that might benefit from a "special" school. One of my children has a condition you listed. I do NOT want that child in a special school. That child must function in a world of "normal" people. That child needs to be mainstreamed, with appropriate accommodations, to function in our "normal" world. Also, our school system is doing a remarkable job helping with our special need.

No more bullies, that name cracks me up, from now on I would like to be known as world peace. There is no bigger bully in the world than government but I do not expect you to get where I am coming from. These loopholes you speak of and how CCA will never this and cheat that again you and Frank like to get on here and bash with your bad information, well here is a fact-Last year in Cherokee County not only did Charter Schools USA not take a fee, they donated over a million dollars to ensure Cherokee Charter Academy was financially whole at the end of the year. This was due to the uncertainty of particular funding streams for state chartered special schools; however, the management company (CSUSA) was aware that the school was going to be in a deficit situation and made the decision they would rather take the financial hit themselves than impact what was happening in the classroom.

And Frank we are all still waiting on you to answer my question, your silence is deafening.

Mike...I've heard several times that CSUSA donated a million to CCA. Unfortunately, the financial statements of CCA aren't readily available and it isn't possible to confirm that CSUSA donated a million or loaned a million to CCA. Further, let's assume that CSUSA donated a million, they didn't do it with charitable intent! The would have done it in order to secure further rent and management fees thus negating the charitable intent and the donation.

Frank, for the third time, you said "You have many other choices...as you've always had choices." Please name those choices. It is painfully obvious you have it good in Alpharetta and you are happy with that school system (like your teammate Elizabeth Hooper) and if 1 dime is diverted from your precious government school you just will not stand for it. So you post on this forum defending a system that some parents do not believe in and try and make us villains for doing what we think is best for our kids. Let us review some of your better statements.
#1. ...the schools are doing the best they can with the money they're provided. Keep in mind that Chip Rogers and friends have been cutting school funding! Even now, while they're underfunding public schools, they are overfunding charter schools. Show them your anger and demand public schools be fully funded.
#2. The best thing for the children is to have parents actively involved in their overall education...
#3. Time isn't free and many parents have responsibilities from dawn to dusk that prevent them from volunteering at school.
#4. CCA requires parents to activily participate and contribute time. Once again, some parents may not have the time to contribute. Again, CCA wouldn't be the right fit -- again, passive discrimination.

#5 Now lastly Mike, my posting history is out there for all to see, and at no point have I ever called or implied anyone was a bigot.
#6 You and others are using the poor and the black to get charters for your kids.
#7 the amendment doesn't require charters to take over or move into failing districts. They'll move into white, upper income areas. The easy to teach kids
#9 CCA can actively and passively discriminate against certain students
#10 have you ever heard of a two wage-earner family where one works in Alpharetta and the other in Marietta and they're required to be at work by 8:30? They'd be barred from driving their child to CCA
And my favorite of all
#11 government is and has been very successful in many endeavors when the politicians allow knowledgeable government professionals do their jobs...public university systems are a prime example and many local public school systems do amazing jobs.

Frank are you saying it is not a fact your Government discriminated against Native Americans, Women, Blacks and many more? When are you going to answer my question? Do I need to repeat it? School choice is the civil rights fight of the 21st century so no I do not feel I am being "over dramatic". I am about ready to channel my inner John Brown. I survived being chained to a horrible Clayton County school system so I speak from experience you speak from Alpharetta, now step aside good sir, freedom of school choice is coming through.

What in the heck makes you thing Jones and the "Black Legislative Caucus" speak for people who happen to have African heritage? Is it skin color? Wow, that sounds a bit racist. Of course, so does the comment by Jones. You see, this is all about perceived control.

Going back to the 60's? That's just shock talk. Those guys are worried that parents and concerned Georgia citizens will make kids smarter and more independent, and capable. They won't need race pimps like Jones and the BLC anymore.

It's time to view kids in Georgia as kids. No race, no color, no income level. Just kids we need to educate and support so they can flourish in our great and free state and country.

Steve, It's funny that you determine my political viewpoint from my stance on one issue. My reason for opposing this amendment is rooted in conservativism. "Less government, local control." Second, I believe it is appalling that you would choose to use the word "liberal" as an insult. Your intent was obvious from your context. I know several people who are truly liberal. They are intelligent, thoughtful people. I may not agree with them politically, but they have compelling reasons for their viewpoint and it makes for interesting discussion. As Athens Mama pointed out, there are liberals and conservatives on both sides of this issue. Attempting to insult "the other side" is not going to lead to a though-provoking discussion.

Speaking of discussion, that was my intent in asking you to tell me your criteria for a failing school. I truly wanted to discuss the issue based on what your viewpoint was. After reading the wild tangents these comments have taken, it's obvious that a thoughtful discussion won't happen.

I also think it is funny that you keep badgering Frank Jones to answer your question when you won't answer mine.

Athens Mama/Hal, a graduation rate of 67% statewide and 75% for Cherokee does NOT translate into a dropout rate of 25%. The grad rate means that's the percentage of students who graduate in 4 years/3 summers. Others take longer. I'm trying to find out if there is data to follow the remaining students to give a more accurate picture.

Read the following for an explanation of the graduation rate Pay close attention to the information that is below the chart. Please keep in mind that some students require more time to complete graduation requirements.

There are many programs in our high schools to help retain students and get them the help they need to stay in school and graduate. Mike/Steve -- one of you mentioned that you are in business. Have you approached your local high school to see if there's a program that's a fit for what you do? Maybe they could use you as a mentor, or to take an intern? I'm not a high school teacher, so I don't know details on what programs they have or what their needs are. But I'm sure they'd be only too happy to get you involved.

Beth, in addition to Frank's thoughtful response about GT, keep in mind that there are MANY public school students who gain admission to GT.

I'm going to leave with a quote from Dick Yarbrough that perfectly sums up my reason for not supporting this amendment: "Somehow, people think I oppose charter schools. I do not. What I do oppose is giving our friends in the Legislature the opportunity to get their hands on the process, aided and abetted by for-profit charter school management companies (and their campaign contributions.) This isn't about the kids; it is about money -- and lots of it. The Metro Atlanta TSPLOST failed in part because polls indicated a high distrust of our politicians by the voters. Why, all of a sudden, should we trust them with our children's future?"

Jennifer, if you're quoting Dick Yarbrough, you are not a conservative. Don't try to jingle the shiny things of "what do you define a failing school" bit. You know the stats. You're just on the side of the big, bloated bureaucracy. You don't care about the kids on the other side of the map who don't don't have what's needed to make it.

You don't care about local control. Local control means KIDS. Not school districts with >$400K per year superintendents who lay off teachers, underfund schools and point to the few schools that are doing well as proof the local system is working fine (and get the backing of folks like yourself.)

Here are the charter stats. During the commission being in operation, 60 schools requested a charter. 4 were accepted by the districts. 56 applied to the commission. 16 were granted charters. 14 opened. The year before the commission, ZERO were approved by the districts.

Read the editorial page of today's AJC to get an idea of the impact of some charter schools in rural Georgia. For one school, which serves a five-county area, the population of the school is 75% white while the public schools serve 98-99% black children. Is this not de facto government-funded re-segregation? The numbers of students on free/reduced lunch in that public charter is also significantly lower than the average, so it is a socio-economic as well as race segregation...

The charter bill would NOT serve the under-served without requirements that the schools reflect the demographics of the community from which it draws. And it does NOT make that a requirement.

Even better. I grew up on the other side of the tracks! Even better again, I DO go to these schools TODAY. I don't just "hear from friends". Get out there and see them yourself.

This charter bill has EVERYTHING to do with those kids. You know it. You just stand for the big interests and the bureaucracy. It will ensure that parents and a community who desire to start a school and perform the necessary due diligence have the opportunity now without the local system feeling threatened and turning down the school to keep out the parents and kids.

You also know very well, this commission is the same one as before. No new state bureaucracy. Just the state ensuring the people and kids of Georgia don't continue to get trampled upon by the power hungry districts. But, you know that. You're on the side of the vested interests. Not the parents and kids who desire education choice in their community.

My stats are exactly on. I did the research. Got the info "from the horses mouth". My info is spot on. Yours is not. But, you know that.

And you know well "Charter Systems" are BS. That's what a bloated district does to thwart competition. They lob on the "charter" bit on to the back of their logo and somehow that means they're new and hip. I don't think so. The problem is still the same. Parents and leaders can no more easily start a new school under that system as the current. But, you know that.

The charter bill have EVERYTHING about taking tax dollars away from those kids. As I mentioned on another thread... until charter schools actually offer innovative educational techniques and are run by not-for-profit EMO's I will not be convinced otherwise.

If it was truly about the kids, the charters would invest in the best teachers instead of relying on teachers with little or no experience, and some that are not even certified to educate our children.

Monty, you have no idea what you are talking about. Perhaps you should do some research before making a comment. CCA has a Cambridge Advanced Program that is not found anywhere else in Georgia.

Beth, the Cambridge program is not recognized by UGA or GT. Our public schools use programs that are accepted by major universities. Bill...seriously? I am supposed to trust you to teach science to my child based on your assertion that you are qualified? You wouldn't be willing to go through the certification process?

Steve, since you've chosen to make assumptions about me based on my stand on one issue, I'll give you an assumption based on information you've shared publicly. You're a businessman with a child in a North Fulton public school who has attended charter school conferences for some years now. Based on that, I'm going to assume that you stand to make some money off of this should it pass.

There goes the lib. Always somehow linking everything to "profit". Uhhhh,,,no. Jennifer, your left wing views are way off.

Many of us here know who each other are. But, we would never call out those things. Ahh, the left winger would though.

Just so you know. The product I pitch in the market has never been and will never be purchased by a school. Or by a school system. Or by a government, of any size. I have no conflict of interest. If this bill passes, I gain nothing. Except that my state will have a vehicle for more easily approving charter schools, more than likely outside of my school district. If it fails, I lose nothing. Except that Georgia will lose a vehicle for more easily approving charter schools, more than likely outside of my school district.

I have attended 2 charter school conferences. Won't be this year (if you looking). Did you know there will be district teachers there? Oooo, you better tell on them!

The stats for Georgia schools are there. They can be much better. My kids schools are OK (although I would argue can always better.) But, this isn't an argument based on the fact that we have good schools. It's an argument based on the fact that many of our schools aren't great. And the people closest to kids are the parents. And they deserve a right to petition to open and school without a bureaucracy blocking it for political reasons.

That's why we have the amendment on the table.

Juan, I was addressing Steve, not you. Charter schools already have plenty of avenues to gain approval, both locally and through the state. I am actually for charters that are actual charters. In the 90's, charter schools began as a way of finding true innovation in education. That I am completely in favor of. What I'm against is state control with a non-elected commission to oversee this. Now, if you can address issues without name-calling and assumptions, I'll be happy to chat with you. As I've stated before, my opposition to this amendment is based on the conservative view of less government, local control. Charter proponents already have what they need to get charters approved.

Juan is me. I have two accounts. One under my nick name, the other under my name. One on one machine, the other on the other.

The commissioners will be appointed by elected officials. Just as the Board of Regents and all other agencies that do work for the state. The State Board of Education is also appointed by elected officials. This is no different than it it is today. The Forrester Commission. Professional Standards Commission (for teachers). Here they all are: http://sos.georgia.gov/elections/boards_gov.htm. All appointed by elected officials. All spending Georgia money. Including the state funds for charter schools.

Charters do not have what they need to be approved. The local districts WILL NOT approve them. History proves that.

I believe there are four charter schools on the State DOE agenda for October approval and several renewals, so it is ongoing. The State DOE has to oversee the schools approved by the State and supply the support services (special Ed, curriculum, testing, data reports, etc.), so there WILL be increased bureaucracy with an increase in approvals, they simply aren't staffed to handle it even with 16. The renewal process looks pretty sketchy... a lot of the data and information relies on self-reporting, and the State is not staffed to do more than a cursory glance at these. for example, on staff satisfaction, the CCA board did not agree with the staff's assessment of the leadership at the school so they rejected the survey and ordered a new survey be done (which less than half the staff completed the second time). What is the message to the staff in that situation? Don't complain or tell us there are problems, we won't believe you. And you still get to report to the state that staff are happy! The state person reviewing the renewal won't know the survey was a do-over unless they read the Cherokee Tribune or Ledger News.

Bill, read my post again. It is simply saying that the inverse of the graduation rate is not a drop out rate. A previous poster said we had an approximately 30% dropout rate. My post was to clarify that.

Will you please tell me how this "competition," as you see it, is going to help me as a teacher?

The students in the Cambridge program also complete the entire year of the the common core standards by December and then move on to more advanced topics within the Cambridge program. I am aware of our local colleges' policies as my oldest son is now a freshman at GT. I don't see anything wrong with challenging these students. I have found this to be more challenging than the AIM and Honors classes my three other children were in.

Bill, it is for the children. But, as their teacher, doesn't this entire thing have to benefit the teacher for it to impact the children? Research shows that the teacher is the most important SCHOOL BASED factor in a child's education (but not the overall most important factor.) Higher wages? Every charter teacher I know (and I know several) makes far less in the charter than they do in the public school. And how will the parents "write a check????" Your reasoning there doesn't make sense. Also, it sounds like a magic wand is going to be waved and voila -- paperwork is gone! That's magical thinking. Accountability is going to be part of any school. Can I ask when was the last time you were in a classroom?

I talked to a charter teacher this week that told me before coming to our school, she was ready to leave teaching forever. She said she is very happy now. The kids are the same, but when she has a problem with a student, she gets support and help from staff to resolve it, where in her old school they swept it under the rug and told her to deal with it herself.

@Monty, gee that sounds like the teachers at my NEIGHBORHOOD school, except for the management group that makes the money...the money DCSS Administrators family and friends steal!

@Monty, Jennifer, No More, et al. I know the "any-charter-is-nirvana" crowd wouldn't spend time on anything not lauding charters, but thought you might appreciate this if it hasn't shown up on Facebook yet for you. It speaks to many of the concerns we have about this amendment, not NFP charters: http://jerseyjazzman.blogspot.com/2012/09/wont-back-down-ii-sequel.html

Although I disagree with just about every point made by Elizabeth Hooper, I’m pretty sure I’m voting “No” on this one. For the record, I am pro-school choice, I voted AGAINST E-SPLOST, and personally believe that all education should be privatized.

So why am I voting “No?” The following is an excerpt from an opposition article, recently posted in the AJC. While I don’t agree with every point made by the author, I think he is correct on the most critical issue - accountability:

By Sean Murphy:
http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2012/10/01/charter-schools-amendment-it-is-t-splost-of-education/?cxntfid=blogs_get_schooled_blog
"Rather than local school boards’ accountability to the voter, a state appointed group of seven people will be empowered to create a separate system of schools. Although they will use your tax dollars for funding, they are not elected; if you don’t like what they do, you can’t vote them out. Unchecked power will be in the hands of this small, politically appointed group that will decide how and where schools operate.”

Finally, I have discussed this issue with a sitting school board member who shares my economic and political philosophy of limited government, free markets, individual liberty and personal choice. Although (s)he is “pro-school choice,” (s)he is also voting “No” for the reasons mentioned above.

Hi Jake,
There's a lot of name calling on this blog so happy to see you write out your thoughts. Just a few things to keep in mind through your decision making time. Remember that the Board of Regents, State School Board and PSC are all appointed entities today. They are appointed for their expertise and 'getting rid' of one is possible.

Will you read one more article? I thought Benita Dodd from the GA Public Policy Foundation had one of the best explanations I've run across. "To be profitable, a company must offer a product that attracts enough consumers then keep them satisfied or lose them. Or it must monopolize the market and keep out any competitors that could build a better widget. That may explain why Georgia’s education monopoly bureaucracy is reluctant to allow competitors to enter the marketplace of ideas." http://georgiapolicy.org/choice-charters-and-the-children/

Most school boards in the state have proven to be resistant to charter schools, not all, but most. There are bricks & mortar charter schools in less than 15 of our 180 school systems. That's it even though the charter school law is 11 years old in Georgia. If the school systems do what they should, the commission should only see denied schools that get a chance to appeal but will be denied by the commission as well. Only 16 out of nearly 60 were approved over the 2 years the commission was in place the first time. Like the State School Board, they want to do a good job.

Jennifer hall, the 16 schools you are referring to were approved by the charter commission before they wrte ruled unconstitional, and because they were ruled unconstitional most of those schools were unable to open. We need an appeals process for our kids. The traditional public schools keep our local tax dollar to spend on kids. If the charter school kids go back there will be more over crowding and even less money.or, the charter kids will be home schooled and the school district will lose all the money, even local tax money. They really lose then.

@Maly

"We need an appeals process for our kids.: You have an appeals process; the state BOE approved three new start-up charters and renewed three others this week. The Supremes ruled that taking local dollars for state charters was unconstitutional, not the state schools themselves. The governor, who has told almost everyone to cut another 3% from their state budgets, miraculously "found" state money to fund those state charters above and beyond the state allotment. So children in state charter schools are more valuable to the state than children in regular public schools? Really?

Look again at funding; the money follows the child. If those students in state charters had moved to traditional schools, the state would have paid less per FTE for them. Local tax dollars would have been spent on those students' education, but the state (somewhere) would have been able to make fewer cuts.

"The traditional public schools keep our local tax dollar to spend on kids." No, the local government allocates money to school districts per FTE. If a student is not enrolled, the TPS does not get the money, so they can't keep it.

"If the charter school kids go back there will be more over crowding and even less money..." There may be overcrowding, but some schools are actually under-enrolled. There will not be less money as, again, that child would be earning their FTE funding.

@Maly

"the charter kids will be home schooled and the school district will lose all the money, even local tax money. They really lose then." The school district won't get the money, since the student won't be enrolled, but they also don't have to staff to educate the child.

There is a process by which charters are currently being approved by the state. Yes, they only earn the state allotment now, but they may also re-apply to the local board to qualify the next year for local funds. Maybe the Charter School group should devote their time and energy to helping charter start-ups develop (and improve) valid charter applications rather than fighting to have the state fund your students at twice the rate our TPS students are funded. But a campaign of misinformation is easier than that, I guess...